Bernard Hodes Group | Publications

Is Anyone Really Listening?

Why employers need to know what's on their employees' minds

Whether the job market is booming or stagnant, finding and keeping top talent should always be among a company's top priorities. But how do you know where to find the best talent, and how to keep them once you've found them?

According to Carol Barber, senior vice president at Bernard Hodes Group, to attract the best candidates, companies need to determine their unique selling points--and that starts with their current workforce. Every company should be creating a dialogue with their employees to find out why they stay and what they feel could be improved. Engaging your top employees is not only a great way to maintain employee morale, it's also one of the best ways to find others just like them.

We met up with Carol at her office in the Pensacola, Florida, area to talk about how asking the right questions and really listening to the answers can help companies formulate their recruiting and retention strategies.

Q. You started your career writing recruitment ads. How did you move to conducting employee interviews?

A. Fortunately for me, very early in my career, I actually met a person who was hired from an ad I wrote. He went on and on about how the ad made his new employer sound so progressive, the job itself so interesting, and the physical location so much like paradise. I felt a bit deceitful right then, because I'd created the ad strictly on my client's instructions to “make it sound exciting.” It was based on nothing more than that.

That's when I realized the power of the industry I'm in--and that there should be much more to the process of attracting great talent, starting with the communications component. What our clients offer cannot be returned for its purchase price, like something from a retail store. Instead, our clients offer “opportunity”, which is perceived and experienced differently by different people. If things don't work out as expected by the “buyer” (candidate) and the “seller” (employer), it can be very devastating for all parties.

Making a job change is one of life's most stressful experiences. I found out early that recruitment ads and materials could serve as an important first filter--if they describe the employer's value proposition, culture and expectations in a compelling and truthful manner. That's why I've made a career-long learning project out of trying to understand what attracts, motivates and retains great people.

The interviews I do have a variety of objectives behind them. They create the foundation for employment branding, uncover issues affecting morale, identify hiring process gaps, and provide insights on turnover problems.

Q. What's the advantage of interviewing employees?

A. There's really no better way to get the facts than from the people who are already employed with a company, and they are usually very excited to participate in the process. However, the value of the information really depends on the interview process.

For instance, I prefer to conduct employee interviews in person versus online, which allows for very little anecdotal feedback, and without my HR clients present. This establishes an open platform for candid discussion, and I'm able to pick up on body language and voice inflections that lead to deeper conversation. Once their confidence is gained, I've found people to be very forthcoming about how they feel about their employers. I've always been impressed with the intelligence, insightfulness and unselfishness of the people I've interviewed.

Q. What kind of recruitment and retention issues can be solved by just talking to employees?

A. By exploring what attracted them to their employers, what keeps them motivated, what they feel could be improved, and their job-seeking habits, the guesswork in developing recruitment and retention programs is greatly reduced. As I've said to many clients, “If we could clone your best people, we would, but since that's illegal, let's get into their heads to find ways to attract more people just like them.”

I do recommend that companies engage a third party to conduct employee interviews. People are much more likely to open up to an outsider, as long as they feel they can trust the process. I'm never on a witch hunt, and I explain that to the people I interview. I also make sure they know what they tell me will be reported without identifying their names. I show them how my findings will be presented and explain why I'm doing the interviews, what the objectives are. After that, it's pretty much just listening to what they say.

Q. Once you've interviewed an employee, what's your next step? What do you do with the information you've gathered?

A. Once I've gathered all the input, I roll it up as an aggregate, showing responses in order of their frequency of mentions. From that point, it's fairly easy to see commonalities and develop a targeted strategy for the client.

If the interviews have been done to get to the bottom of morale issues, I always try to share the report with the participating employees first, just to show them their responses have been kept totally confidential.

If the interviews have been conducted to drive a new creative strategy, I always recommend to the client that we present the work to the participating employees first as well. It's really exciting for them to see how their input translated creatively. That's when I've heard comments like, “I said that very thing!” Then I know we've created messages that will resonate positively and honestly among internal and external audiences. It's a wonderful feeling.

Q. Over the years, you've interviewed hundreds of workers, from accountants to truck drivers. Have you discovered any commonalities?

A. Absolutely! If employees are with companies that have positive morale, people always say the same things: “It's like a family here.” “I feel respected and valued.” “There are no double standards here.”

Conversely, if the client is having morale issues, employees will make comments such as: “They show me every day I can be replaced.” “My contributions are never acknowledged.” “You can't trust anyone around here.”

So, a good question would be, “Then how does any company differentiate itself?” A skilled interviewer will follow up on answers like those just mentioned with very non-threatening questions such as, “Why do you say that?” or “Could you share an example?” People love to tell their stories. It's from personal stories that employers' real personalities emerge, which is what employees base their emotional ties on. Companies with an “employees first” mind-set build tremendous loyalty. Satisfied employees have told me they've been offered more money or better perks, but chose to stay with their employers because of their caring, nurturing and open work environments.

Q. Has any particular story stayed with you?

A. One of my favorite stories came from an executive with a quick-service restaurant company. He came to the U.S. at age 11, and one of the first American foods he tried was a milkshake. He said nothing had ever been so delicious to him. When he wanted his own car at 16, his father told him he'd have to earn the money for it. So, he applied where the milkshakes were great.

In his 20-year career, he's advanced from a part-time fry cook to the leader of a key region for his company, driving a fabulous Corvette awarded to him for reaching certain goals. His loyalty to his employer is unsurpassed; he told me how the company gave him every opportunity to succeed and how they helped him along the way.

Today, he spends a lot of time coaching and mentoring people who are “working the line”, just like he started. To me, his story is the essence of the American Dream come true. And what do you want to bet the milkshakes are always on the house for him?

From interviews like that, it was very easy for us to develop a series of testimonial posters used to educate and motivate a new generation of workers at that quick-service restaurant company. The materials nearly wrote themselves.

Q. Have the reasons why employees stay with a company changed over the years?

A. Not really, and it's almost never compensation and benefits that keep people in place. If employees understand what's expected of them and how their work impacts the big picture, if they feel their opinions matter, if they have opportunities for growth and development, and if they see their performance fairly recognized and rewarded, they stay. It's really that simple.

Q. Do you have a magic trick for getting employees to open up?

A. No magic at all. But, I do think people see I have no personal agenda, no preconceived notions, and no reason to rat on them. And I'm certain they see I'm sincerely interested in what they have to say. I could listen to peoples' stories endlessly--they fascinate me.

Q. Based on what you've learned, do you have any tips on retaining talent?

A. I think the best way to answer this question is by sharing best practices from client companies that have achieved high levels of employee satisfaction and retention. It's no coincidence, in my opinion, that these are the same companies known for innovation, quality and solid financial results in their industries. I've worked with multinational organizations with thousands of workers, as well as small start-ups, and I've observed that companies that enjoy high morale and retention have many things in common, such as hiring for fit, setting clear expectations, providing ongoing development, and committing to work/life balance.

Q. Can listening to what current employees have to say actually help companies recruit future employees?

A. It's important for companies to understand what attracts highly talented people to them. It's interesting that in very high-performing organizations, people will say their co-workers/colleagues are top on the list of what they like best, proving that ambitious, talented employees want to associate with people like themselves. To attract the best candidates, companies need to determine their unique selling points--and that starts with their current workforce.

Q. Obviously, some clients are going to be resistant to the idea of you interviewing their employees. What do you say to convince them of the merits of such a task?

A. Actually, nowadays, it's a very rare exception that a client doesn't recognize the value of this process. As a company, Hodes has many examples of work that has come out of employee focus groups. By sharing those case studies, we're able to make the business case for why we need to do our homework in order to create targeted, customized strategies for our clients. There is no one size fits all in recruiting and retaining talent.

Q. How do clients take the information you've found in your interviews and turn it into a concrete action plan?

A. We agree on objectives with our clients in advance to ensure the data gathered is relevant to the challenge at hand. Then, we work in partnership with them to create an action plan, which may include getting management's buy-in, developing internal communications, revamping the hiring process, conducting recruiter boot camps and establishing ROI measurements--or any of a myriad of activities.

Q. Where does retention fall on HR's list of priorities?

A. Every major business publication in the U.S. reports that CEOs are kept awake at night thinking about how they'll attract and retain the best talent. It's a major priority at the highest levels of companies, which, of course, makes it a priority for HR.

Q. What role does management play in retention?

A. I think the old adage, “People don't leave companies, they leave managers”, is right on. Companies that work to develop their mangers at all levels are more likely to retain great people. Investing in training for managers to help them understand motivators and de-motivators is always money well spent.

Q. In terms of retention strategies, are companies changing with the times? Are companies still trying to retain employees with the strategies they developed 20 years ago?

A. Actually, very successful companies today realize retaining people requires many things. What's really interesting is that employees perceive the smallest gestures as big. And we shouldn't forget that.

I remember an RN who told me the thing she liked best about her hospital was a monthly ice cream sundae feast. When I queried her further, I learned the facility's nurse managers brought in the yummy stuff every month and, while everyone piled on fudge sauce and whipped cream, they discussed issues, concerns and victories--whatever was on their minds. What a clever way to break down barriers. After all, who can be guarded when hunkering down on a sweet, gooey treat? Actually, that interview led to a campaign headline that said, “We'll throw in everything and add the cherry on top!” It was a huge hit internally and externally for a very good reason--it was true.

I always advise clients to be prepared to do something with employee feedback, no matter how insignificant it may seem to them. An employer's prompt actions speak volumes about respect for what its workers think.

Q. And what about in times of recession? In those times when many employees feel lucky just to have a job. Are employers working less hard to keep people?

A. Highly talented people are always in demand, regardless of economic conditions. Since they're the ones who drive results, employers should always be working to keep them happy, motivated and productive.

Q. Is there one thing all employers should be doing right now to keep their best people happy?

A. Yes, they should be listening to them, very intently, and responding to their feedback. Current reports indicate that many workers are just waiting for the job market to open up, and they'll be gone. In fact, it is predicted that the coming phase in the war for talent will make the last phase look like a walk in the park.

Companies should try to engage their employees before undertaking business initiatives--no matter how small or large. Not only will their input be important, their buy-in will pay off in their desire to be company ambassadors. Since the number one way people say they find jobs, and employers say they fill positions, is through networking and employee referrals, happy employees become recruiters for their companies. And every time they sell someone else on their employers, they resell themselves. It's marketing that is totally priceless, and it's already covered in a company's overhead.

Carol Barber is senior vice president at Bernard Hodes Group and oversees its Florida operations. After five years as a generalist in HR, Carol began a career in recruitment marketing, and joined Hodes in 1983. At that time, she was responsible for managing Hodes' Atlanta office and was instrumental in building the company's presence throughout the South, including the opening of an office in Raleigh, North Carolina. Her long career with Hodes has encompassed all facets of recruitment marketing and staffing solutions. She developed concepts for Hodes' Diversity Services and HR PR practice lines, and is responsible for managing both practices, as well as the Hodes Health Care Division. Carol currently lives in Northwest Florida with her husband and enjoys pursuing her interests in tennis, poker, bridge and RV camping.